TOPIC:

Two questions for those with more Albacore history than myself:

1) How long did the previous Primary Number of 1066 exist for?
2) When did the class adopt adjustable rigs?

Matt

For cvrda ( Classic and Vintage Racing Dinghy Association ) events we give pre-1965 (Classic wing) Albs (which is most Faireys that attend) a better handicap than old Albs (pre 1985) such as our Fosrite from 1974.
This ruling applies to most classes and we are always ready to review handicaps based on the data we have collected over the years. We have actually reduced the Albacore handicap a few years ago based on that performance data.
With Finns, classic (narrow) Merlins and Albacores all sailing off fairly similar handicaps we have some good close racing.

Matt - When I bought my boat in June 2000, our PY was 1068. I think it went down one by one for a while so, as far as I can remember, it stayed at 1066 for just one year. At 1068, the difference between us and a standard Laser was just ten PY points. Over the years since 2000, that has widened to thirty eight!

Andy - I think that a split PY for different aged boats, in principle, is a good idea. The Flying Fifteens, for instance, have a gold (1017), a silver (1039) and a classic (1051)PY system. Every idea or system is going to have its backers and, probably in equal measure, its critics.

Dave I think you summarised my problem. Neither the Laser nor the Albacore have changed over the last 10 years. Granted we now have the Ovis which are a hard act to beat. I do not see why we accept a handicap system that seems to benefit poor sailing as in the Laser and penalise better results and punish the whole Alb fleet. I can see the necessity of adjusting the PY of new classes say over a five year period and regularly checking the development classes but think it is pointless exercise to keep adjusting the PY of long established fixed classes.

Yes we could adopt split PY within the class for different boats - we already do at the Nationals and some events with gold and silver fleets.

Albacore Andy

The explanation I was given at our club was that the most likely cause was a change in where people are doing their sailing - more open water, less river / inland. I sail mostly against N 12's and they see the Albacore as having a big advantage on a "reaches", only problem is that there's only one suitable wind direction for a reach where I sail and it's not difficult to set a course which neutralises any benefit I may have. So, a case of more people choosing to sail where they can benefit from the characteristics of their chosen class with a consequential "correction" in PY numbers. It just means that if you sail somewhere which doesn't provide optimal conditions for a class then, you end up at an increasing disadvantage.

My club also gives five handicaps for the N12's ( 1170 - 1068, depending on sail number) and, four for Phantoms (1047 - 1003 depending on sail nos / age). Whilst I can compete against the older N 12's, with the right wind, I'm nowhere close against the new boats. I have asked about handicaps for an older Albacore but was told that it was something for the Association to decide, not the club. I wouldn't want to see multiple handicaps like we have for our N12 / Phantom fleet but, a more competitive handicap for older boats would be helpful.

One further thought - has there ever been consideration of a separate handicap for single handed Albacore sailing? We have one series which allows for "with or without crews" - single handed Albacore sailing is fun / stimulating. I've never really understood why more classes don't allow this (Gull / Heron have separate PN's for 1 / 2 person sailing ) if it's a weight issue then it doesn't stop me using my 4 stone son...... Only he now wants to helm. My own experience is that people prefer helping to crewing, hence increasing popularity of singlehanded classes / two handed boats not getting out because of lack of crew. why not provide an option for single handed Albacore racing. I'd prefer this change - I don't mind too much being beaten, I'm not so happy with not getting out because I lack a crew.

Graeme

Graeme - I'm glad you brought up the single handed issue. The Mirror and Comet Versa and Zero are all allowed to be raced single handed so why not the Albacore? I recently lost my crew of nine years standing and have to start all over again but it would help the process to be able to do some single handed club racing, sanctioned by the class. I used to do this at Whitefriars Sailing Club during the Wednesday evening series when Hannah wasn't available. The club allowed this but dropped my PY by twenty points. Now though, as a member of South Cerney Sailing Club, I can't do this.
Last weekend, I did one Sunday morning general handicap race single handed, calculated the result then scrubbed it so that it wasn't published.
I think that, if the class allowed for this, it would give the option to race at club level without a crew but be entered as a separate class, ie Albacore S/H. The separate class rule would stop people choosing to race single handing to gain an advantage when conditions are light.
The ideal situation will always be to sail as the Albacore was designed, by two people.
I now have a crew for the Sunday afternoon pursuit race (I am grateful for that) but, at the moment, that's it, so let's adapt the rules to allow for single handed club racing. I'm not suggesting this be adopted for class racing but just for club general handicap racing.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Dave

Sorry to hear you have lost your crew. After so much training that must be frustrating. Ian and I still manage to sail together but now just for events.
When I first sailed Blue Jay I suffered the same crew issue and for a long time sailed single-handed when the conditions permitted. It is maybe an advantage in light conditions unless you ate all the pies! In medium and above breezes when you cannot keep the boat flat it goes the other way. In spite of this our club have adopted a 2% penalty to anyone single-handing a traditional two-handed dinghy.

There has been a steady decline in traditional two-handed dinghies in favour of single-handers. Over the same period the Laser handicap has increased considerably. Our lake have pegged some of the handicaps but there is no question that in confined waters with short legs the single-handers generally have the odds in their favour. We have the Lasers, the usual clutch of Solos, Comets and Bytes. Add in Supernova,Phantoms, Lightning and Streaker and you start to get the picture. All of these single-handers pick up quickly on shifts and gusts and do well on confined waters.

All this aside there is still no real explanation as to the reasoning behind such large shifts in handicap. Were the handicaps of ten years ago so far out I think not. My crew reasons that all good Laser sailors tend to class race and this could explain the big shift in the Laser with returns on less experienced sailors. It may be the reverse for the Albacore.

The most important thing is to enjoy your racing and improve!

Albacore Andy

What everyone needs to consider when saying that handicaps have changed a lot in the last few years is that until the RYA online returns system came into effect, the data was very limited as few clubs did paper returns, so the handicaps were less accurate.
Now more clubs, and especially the "top" clubs where the best boats sail events, are returning detailed data so the full race time data is available for analysis and more accurate figures can be obtained.
It needs all the clubs where Albacores are sailed to return their results to give the best picture and also then the system's recommended local PY adjustments could be used.

I absolutely agree we have to make sure our own clubs do submit returns to the RYA each year - particularly if your club does a lot of mixed handicap racing. Our club the Warsash Sailing Club does, and it is noted on the RYA website that our club is one of the contributors( I do check!)
Having had our Ovington Albacore for a year and a half now we have seen the handicap worsen by 12 points in two years (2012 1062, 2013 1055, 2014 1050) which is somewhat galling when one of the reasons for us picking the Albacore was the PY so we would fit in the top band of our fast class (we have superfast, fast and slow classes). Now I fully understand that the PY is trying to be a generalised rating for dinghies that are racing on rivers (flat water plus current) lakes/reservoirs (flat water no current) and the sea/estuaries (waves and tides)and it just cant really do that - thats why the RYA has the getout that individual clubs can have locally adjusted PYs for handicap racing - however I suspect most clubs do what our club does which is just use the primary PY no. We are the only Albacore at WSC and the clubs main racing is Wednesday evening out of the river - triangles then back in the river to finish - so often racing in decreasing breeze with foul tide in the river, (one way or the other) which is why we went for the Albacore not an assymetric. The 2014 PY list looks to me as if the quick to plane / good light airs boats have had their handicaps adversely adjusted - ie the overall range of numbers has spread out. (Was 2013 a light year??) My gripe with the RYA would be that if the boat has a primary yardstick and hasnt changed configuration for years then why should the handicap have such a large adjustment - surely there must be some smoothing year on year.
Anyway shouldnt natter on - but as a newcomer to the class I have to say - what a suprisingly nice boat to sail!