TOPIC:

Hi I am trying to improve my downwind performance. My current crew has been working hard with the standard jib pole and I now want to optimise this and rig it for easy use. I have studied the two versions of jib pole installation on the web site and there seem to have been no further updates or qualifications. First is this type of installation now officially 'approved'? I assume it is as it is still on the site. Second can anyone give me an optimum length for the pole together with tube thickness etc and any further updates? Is this controlled in the class regs? I plan to build a new pole as my existing one has seen better days and has a noticeable kink! Finally has anyone devised that ultimate downwind technique yet as I recall someone promised to write one? Yours hoping to bury the Lasers at last!



Albacore Andy

GBR A7525

Blue Jay

Andy,
Nice to see Blue Jay mentioned again. I remeber it when Bob Perrin sailed at Maidenhead.
The rules can be found at www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/technical/classrules.htm
and there is a reference to the jib pole so I won't offer an interpretation.
I have found a 15mm pole works fine and doesn't crash around in the
slot too much upwind. I use it just like a free pole downwind with the
advantage that the crew can change sides very quickly and you don't
need to take it down until the last minute as it flies away

Andy

I hesitate to offer an answer - being Mr Slow Down Wind but an Albacore will struggle to beat a well-sailed Laser in Force 2 to Force 4 because Lasers plane earlier and have a nice flat bottom. Below F2 the Alb has less wetted surface area, and in F5+ the stability of the Albacore gives it an edge.Where the Alb will score over the Laser is in going to windward- especially in waves - you just have to hope you get far enough infront upwind to hold them off until the next beat. Also make sure your Race Officer finishes races upwind!

Good luck

Hi all

Thanks for the response. I have read the regs and see the main control is on length of pole which makes sense. Mine is just inside this measurement so legal. The diameter is around 25mm which is from your comments on the heavy side. Will certainly be looking to lighten this up a bit. Out of interest what is the Speed set up like - have you used yours yet John? Any comments are of interest. Is there an optimum length as I noted mention of a shorter fixed pole being used on reaches? Finally on the permamently rigged pole are you using the maximum length? If it is any consolation my downwind performance is nothing to write home about but I am also fighting it out with a Supernova which really takes off fast and is no walkover as the helm knows how to sail it. I get a good buzz when I beat him!




thanks

Albacore Andy

Blue Jay

GBR A7525

Our pole is max length and 25mm we tried thinner but it bent going for a thinner line between pole end and tack this year and better velcro on the mast.



We still run a static line up the mast to which the higher end of the pole is attached via a block. I know lots of people have done away with this but i like it, dont really know why though?

albacore wrote:

The diameter is around 25mm which is from your comments on the heavy side. Will certainly be looking to lighten this up a bit. Out of interest what is the Speed set up like - have you used yours yet John? Any comments are of interest. Is there an optimum length as I noted mention of a shorter fixed pole being used on reaches?

IanW wrote:

Our pole is max length and 25mm we tried thinner but it
bent going for a thinner line between pole end and tack this year and
better velcro on the mast.



We still run a static line up the mast to which the higher end of
the pole is attached via a block. I know lots of people have done away
with this but i like it, dont really know why though?

On Blackadder (AL6490) I made my own pole from tube from the local hardware store. The pole diameter was about 20mm but It was slightly thicker gauge that that found on 25mm poles. it worked well with no bending problems. The set up was pretty much as described in Trevor's article (I used his boat as my guide).
The Speed set up uses 25mm pole. The standard offering uses a guide line on the inboard end. But I have taken it off and it is now infinitely better. To answer Ian, the reasons I took the line of are as follows (in order or importance)
1) Grumpy wife complained that there was too much friction in the system and it was difficult to deploy the pole - It is now much much better without the guide and I am back in her good books.
2) The line on the mast holds the pole end near the mast, which sounds sensible at first, however the effect of this is to angle the pole down more which puts too much tension on the leach of the sail when on a broad-reach or run and causes the jib leach to hook. See pic here
3) For the reasons given in 2 the pole sets better on a beam reach with the pole used to control the jib leach. Even with the inboard end of the pole controlled by bungee, it is very stable. See pic here .

There is no need to use a shorter pole on the reaches as the pole's effective length is reduced as it goes up the mast. Therefore make your dangly pole maximum allowed length.
JohnW2008-01-31 19:31:43

John thanks for all the info and particularly on the Speed system. I have spoken to them and they will supply a fly away kit to order at a not too ridiculous price. As you have removed the fixed guide rope on the Speed system and I can see how it makes sense from your pics are there any other mods you would suggest. As I will be ordering a one-off I can pretty much say what goes in to the kit. What do you favour for the bottom pulley and cleat arrangement for the control line? Is yours deck mounted? Hope to get up to Maidenhead sometime this Spring so may be an opportunity to see some of the albs in action if not join in ,



thanks again



Albacore Andy

GBR A7525

Blue Jay

albacore wrote:

What do you favour for the bottom pulley and cleat arrangement for the control line? Is yours deck mounted? Hope to get up to Maidenhead sometime this Spring so may be an opportunity to see some of the albs in action if not join in

,

I kept things simple. I dont bother with a bottom pulley, on Blackadder I simply used the mast fitting that was there for the old pole. The cleat is deck mounted and bolted through. Photo here The thin blue line controls the pole, the black retracting bungy goes down to the foot of the mast and then back up to a cleat at deck level. This differs from the speed system where the bungy goes down the mast to the lower loop position and then back up to the top pulley. I discussed the reason for this approach with Speed - they said if the bungy went down to the bottom of the mast it would snag on the strut fitting on the mast - which makes sense if you have a strut.
I look forward to meeting you at the Maidenhead tuning session and the Open.

JohnW2008-02-06 21:11:29

And finally - I have purchased a 'kit' from Speed . They were very helpful and put this together at my request based on their production model as on John's boat. Be mindful that you must have an aluminium pole to conform with class regs. Speed now have the kit listed in their latest catalogue - no I didn't get a discount for this plug. Seriously though it has taken most of the agro out of the conversion to fly-away pole together with the photos I took of John's boat at the dinghy show! You could do the conversion cheaper if you convert your own pole and get it right first time. Hope this helps anyone else wanting to make the conversion,



thanks

Albacore Andy