TOPIC:

Mark



The sails are a direct remake of the Redeye design that went well with Al Burrell when he sailed Simoms boat and the sails that Simon has used for the last 4 or 5 years. I have been following the forecast for this weekend and have cancelled the B and B this evening on the basis that there is a real chance there will be absolutely no wind! Knowing my luck it wont be the case but its an expensive weekend for no wind. I will be definitely be at Winsford so will maybe see you there.



Cheers



Andrew [img]smileys/smiley19.gif[/img] [img]smileys/smiley19.gif[/img]

Mark



I work on the following principle, when you are reaching the windward shroud is pretty much taking all the load, this is balanced by the mainsheet (this is a bit counter productive because it also pulls the tip to leward) and strut/foredeck/ram when the wind is aft of the beam and the forestay when the wind is forward of the beam. When you are reaching you need maximum power in all but the lightest of wind therefore you are looking for minimum mast bend. Sideways bend works in the same way as fore and aft bend therefore is is really important to minimise it. The answer must therefore be to ensure that the windward shroud is tensioned in a way that minimises sideways bend (where the tip falls off to leward). In practice the easiest way to acheive this is to release the leward shroud and pull the mast forward with the forestay this in theory ensures that the mast is held up to windward.



As regards running I don't think it makes a lot of difference as there is generally no flow across the sail when dead running so projected area is the name of the game.



"Health Warning" My experience of Albacore Sailing is limited although our downwind speed is pretty good in the events that we have sailed and could be much better with inproved teamwork (Janet has been sailing less than a year)and being a singlehanded sailor communication is not one of my strengths! Also running with too little mast support can lead to a broken mast (got the Tshirt).



I would be interested in a view from the class experts.



Cheers



Andrew

Andrew,

What do you think of the system to pull the mast upright with the forestay. Looks to me as if the jib has a good shape. This is an easy low cost modification.

I realise I have been letting off too much tension from the windward shroud when on a reach & possibley a run?



Rgds Mark

Mike



I think you need to go rather more than a Tad I find that the front of the mast needs to be near the front of the mast gate.



Cheers



Andrwe

Hi Andy,



thanks - very interesting. I haven't tried letting the shrouds off independently so far, and have just been easing the rig forward a tad on the reaches, but I understand your point re only letting off the leeward shroud and will try.



Cheers,

Mike St P

Mike



As a relative newcomer I turned up at my first open meeting and had absolutely no downwind boatspeed. The learning curve was pretty steep but here are some pointers that I have found useful for downwind. I have moved my mast back from the front of the step (speed GRP) This allows the mast to go right forward downwind which has really inproved my downwind speed when running the mast is touching the front of the gate with the strut right off

When it comes to reaching I have found that it is really important to be able to adjust the shrouds independantly, if you just let the shrouds off on both sides the mast will fall down to leward effectively depowering the rig just when you are looking for maximum power. If you can hold the mast straight using the windward shroud this should give you a bit more power and speed.



Hope this helps and is hopefully a simple solution, if you can get the rig forward you dont need to worry about the strut downwind as th foredeck will do the job for you.



Cheers



Andy Elliott

8069

Hi All,



thanks for all the input - I'm confused on a higher level now! Didn't manage to try all of this out today in a lovely light wind as the RO didn't show so had to spend the day on the bank with the flags etc:



Cheers,

Mike StP

Thanks Crawfy,



Marcus was born on Tuesday at 6:15pm already holding the position of mainsheet in one hand and tiller in t'other




Looking forward to the Northerns, the Real Ale has been ordered!



Cheers



Phil

Hi Mike,

I have a strut, but before that I only had a simple cord which was fixed at one side of the gate and went around the aft side of the mast and then forward again through a small block and then to a jammer under the deck. It is simple but very effective for pre bend, a strut is however better as a ram. as Phil says, Paul and Judy have a lump of wood which they stick in, the only difference between them and us others is, they know when to stick the lump of wood in.

By the way Phil, I just heard from Canada that you are a new dad, congratulations, I look forward to a celebration drink at the Northerns

Crawfy

Hi Mike,



Some boats have a purchase system under the deck to the bow. Another nice way of doing it is have a wire or vectran 2 to 1 strop above the deck and couple of cascades under the deck.



cheers



Phil

Hi Phil,



thanks for this. Presumably the boats without struts do have some form of applying prebend though? I don't think the gate on our boat is strong enough to chock the rear of the mast so it would have to be some form of puller.



Mike

Hi Mike,



I'm not convinced that a mast strutt makes any difference, only 5 out of the top 10 at the ints used them. Judy & Paul use a varnished wedge as a pre bend!



The Lee helm is probably caused by the position of the mast foot with respect to the centre board. Something to do with the centre of Lateral resistance, but i'm not going in to that.



Also with respect to Barney above, he lets of loads of jib tension and fly's the jib like a kite on the reaches! He also says that most people sit to far forward in Albacores and the knuckle of the bow should be just out the water and not ploughing. Youngs I think are longer in the Bow than woof's.



Hope this is good food for thought!



Phil

Hi Phil and John,



thanks for kind replies. We are indeed using s/l pole, and letting the rig/kicker off downwind etc. Currently have pusher, no puller or strut so prebend and control at deck level are minimal.




Boat seems very neutral on the helm upwind and, as I said seems to go well. Tends to carry more lee helm on light reaches than I would have expected.




We sailed Poole week in some wind with John Herbert (who beat us!) but we tended to be about equal on boatspeed up and down wind but slower reaching.



Phil, I plan to do the Northerns so I'll see you there I hope,

Cheers,

Mike dsp





Mike dsp2009-09-11 15:48:32

Mike

May I offer you another welcome to the class.



As Phil says, Youngs can be as fast as Woofs so dont get hung up on what are very subtle difference in hull shape.


Concentrate on the basics first.



Are you:



1) Easing the kicker downwind - Albs need quite a bit of twist offwind, ease your kicker off to the point where the main leech teltails are only still just flying.



2) Letting the rig move forward downwind - on a reach ease the leward shrould , on a run ease both shrouds to allow the mast to move forward. In the lighter stuff the mast will be close to the front of the gate at deck level.


In stronger winds dont ease off too much - you need to ensure the mast is fully supported.



3) Using a "dangly pole". You can get a lot more power out of the jib using the a dangly pole to keep the jib leech from twisting too much on the reaches.



This picture of Barney demonstrates:

i) The mast well forward (note the strut is nearly in its maximum forward position and note the curve in the jib luff)

ii) Jib poled out to leward (keeping the leech from twisting off)

iii) Leward shroud is eased (allows the main to fill to maximum fullness).

iv) Leech telltails streaming



Note also the pink forestay line is tight (pulling the mast forward), whilst the jib luff is curved to put more fullness in the jib. (btw Not many Albs do this).

Hi Mike,









Welcome to the Albacores. Youngs can be as fast as Woof's so don't worry. There a few things that are worth trying, these are my personal idea's some may disagree, but here goes.



I would keep the mast foot as far forward as permitted by the class rules, moving it to the mid position is fine when there is 7knots+ but in lighter stuff I have found it a disadvantage, but i sail with a very stiff mast and full fat macs. WRT the macs, don't use to much mast pre bend, they don't like it, you only need a smidgen. As soon as your on the deck, get rid of the pre bend, it makes the sail look prety but it is not fast.



Youngs generally have the centreboard quite along way forward. Do you get any weather helm? consider moving it back, this may not be that straight forward though.



Were do you sail. If you come to the Northerns at Winsford on October 10th/11th then you will be able to talk to lots of people who will be more than happy to help.



Happy Sailing



Phil "A6504 Nemesis"

Northern Rep