TOPIC:

www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/t...al/2013ListFinal.pdf

Thanks Mark probably changed due to your boat speed, at least Solos, Grads Phantoms and Merlins have gone down as well. Of course also clubs should adjust the numbers to suit there own lake etc, remember these numbers are only a guide, Looking forward to seeing your new boat Sunday. Graham

Graham, perhaps All Albs are going just a little quicker, these days.

I shall be with the latest boat on the Allen stand, Sunday, so a good chance to catch up...

Rgds...

FOWLER wrote:

www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/t...al/2013ListFinal.pdf

It must be all the carbon fibre foils/spars & kevlar sails the class adopted last year.

I know that the PY is only supposed to reflect the results submitted to the RYA but it seems inappropriate that we have seen such change over the last 2-3 years. Most of our boats are the same and the only change has been the move to Ovington as our class builder. Yes the Ovingtons are quick and it does pose the question of whether we should be considering a different handicap for the older boats. We already have gold and silver fleet at the nationals. It certainly seems incorrect that an old fairey maybe built 5o plus years ago is now 'handicapped' further and is classified identically to this year's Ovi. Or maybe we are all just paying the price of being such good sailors!

Albacore Andy

Allegedly its all calculated on Club results annual returns. As the majority are probably pond/lake results? and the Albs perform well particularly in force 2/3 conditions, certainly in clubs where I have raced.

I suspect there is a very good argument for a "vintage" handicap, many other classes have one, what's the genarel feeling on this?
Give us some feedback
Cheers
Crawfy

AlbacoreAndy wrote:

I know that the PY is only supposed to reflect the results submitted to the RYA but it seems inappropriate that we have seen such change over the last 2-3 years. Most of our boats are the same and the only change has been the move to Ovington as our class builder. Yes the Ovingtons are quick and it does pose the question of whether we should be considering a different handicap for the older boats. We already have gold and silver fleet at the nationals. It certainly seems incorrect that an old fairey maybe built 5o plus years ago is now 'handicapped' further and is classified identically to this year's Ovi. Or maybe we are all just paying the price of being such good sailors!

Albacore Andy

Given that the only recent 'innovation' is the flyaway jib pole, which every class seems to have adopted, you have to go back to the 80's with fully adjustable rigs coming on stream for the last 'quantum leap' in Alb racing kit(?). One of the strengths of the class.

So if the RYA are right, and we are doing really well now, it can only be the fact that most Alb sailors have been sailing much better over the last few years...?

CrawfyReid wrote:

I suspect there is a very good argument for a "vintage" handicap, many other classes have one, what's the genarel feeling on this?
Give us some feedback
Cheers
Crawfy

There is already some handicap system in place at National Champs level... the Presidents Trophy, from memory.
Later Young, Young/Woof, Speeds, Ovis, Porters, Amos, Chard, Hoare, Knight & Pink, Kingsfield, Hapco from the USA (forgive me my knowledge ends there) built boats & the like all appear to go 'around the same speed' on the race course.
The Fairey boats have given a good account of themselves in recent seasons, with various crews racing 'Blue streak', rebuilt by Chris Somner, an example.

I would feel deflated if the latest efforts we have made with 8192 have not given a 'slight' speed edge over the Fairey, however this may well be down to improved rigs more than the age or hull shape alone.

At the front of the fleet, where development is taking place there is very little, if any, speed edge to be had, but one minor modification at a time gives results & the boats are sailing better to handicap at open events.

Yes we are all having to up our game, this fact will become highlighted with the Int. Champs in the UK this season.

Regards Mark..

The latest RYA Portsmouth Yardstick does seem bizarre because the "Great Lakes" system which is used for the Sailjuice winter series (Grafham GP, Bloody Mary, Tiger Trophy etc) has us at 1062.
At Lyme we find the "G L" reflects actual relative performance for all classes much better than the "official" yardstick (including Standard Laser at 1118 compared to the 2013 PY 1087)

Mark don't worry I am sure we will all have to work hard to get even close. Seriously though I am not promoting whittling away at your advantage. Blue Streak is somewhat special and could hardly be classified as a 'Fairey'. My thrust is that to keep attendances up we need to keep the interest going with members campaigning older boats. At Albacore events we should be looking at Gold and Silver fleet possibly to be split if numbers are over 20 boats. My main thrust over handicaps is quite simple as some of us are regularly handicap racing at club level. The new PYs are a nonsense. For example The Supernova increased by 7 to 1070. The Alb decreased by 7 to 1055. The shift between the two classes is 14 in the course of one year! The current Supernovas are quick so you have to ask the questions. It is certainly time for the RYA to revise the system and in the meantime we all have to sail even faster and accept that our good results will make it even harder next year!!

Albacore Andy

Andy - Whilst I agree with the thrust of your argument the Supernovas aren't a good example! Their handicap has moved by 2, not 7. Last year it was 1068. It's a change that's pretty much in line with most of the other single handers.

Why worry? We have a strong class support. If we support our Opens and offer enough entries at some of the Regattas where we can have our own class starts then we can race on a fair and equal footing.

With the Classic and Vintage Racing Dinghy Assoc (cvrda) we use 94 for pre 1965 built Albs and 93 for 1965-1985 built ones. Given the Merlins are on 92 and 88 we have some close racing.
Handicaps are also adjusted for features such as cotton sails and wooden masts to give fairer racing for older boats and most importantly FUN.
cvrda website