TOPIC:

Albacore has been taken down another 5 points it seems.

At least not as bad as my Phantom, when I bought it, it was 1046, now down to 995!

Good news for the new boats I suppose as it shows how they are advancing, but just another nail for me in club handicap racing with an older boat.

Graham
Natural Ally 5893

Thankfully our main competition in club racing, RS200s have also gone down.

You top fleet sailors will just have to stop sailing so well in handicap and club racing
Seriously if we could get more novices into Albacore racing, their slower times would improve the handicap for all of us as well as boost the class.

This seems to have become quite an issue for the mid fleet and older boat owners as several owners approached me about it at the recent Dinghy Show. We are all aware that with a few possible exceptions the Ovingtons and Speeds are in a 'league' of their own. Fine if you are lucky enough to own one but not if you don't. The RYA are simply number crunching the club handicap race results sent in without any regard to their content. From this they produce their own recommendations on handicaps. We should all be clear that this is just a recommendation and not cast in stone. Unfortunately many clubs are not heeding this and just applying it regardless as the easy option. It is something that we probably need to address as a class or we run the risk of losing the interest and commitment of the depth of our fleet. We do already split our Nationals results into gold and silver fleet and it is logical to suggest that clubs should apply a similar principle at club level. With the PY being further reduced to 1045 the class possibly needs to consider recommending different handicaps for the older boats? If we think 1045 is acceptable for the Ovington where do we comparably classify a Fosrite? It would be interesting to hear comment from more members on this matter.

Albacore Andy
A7525
Blue Jay (1989 Porter composite)

Well said.

For me I was managing OK on 1055, racing against a fleet containing Merlin Rockets, Nat 12, Streaker, Solo, Laser and Enterprise. I haven't won any races yet, but by my own improvement have got to the stage where I'm now ahead on the water (apart from the Merlin) and only need to increase the gap. I think that's achievable for me. Going down to 1050 made it harder, but just about retained the interest. Now I feel I'll just be going out for the sail and do my best, without any chance of winning at all, which is not what I'm there for. From my experience at Rudyard lake last year when the new boats had effectively gone by the first mark, I can believe that 1045 is probably realistic for a modern Albacore. This event was sailed on water similar to my own, being surrounded by trees, with flat water and typically light and patchy winds.

I think there is a case for older boat handicaps. My club operates them for Nat 12 and Merlin, so they are open to the principle, we just need to give them a number. I also sail a classic Flying Fifteen and that fleet has had separate handicaps for Classic and Silver fleets for some time, as well as separate prizes, if not races, at class open, area and national events.

Graham
Natural Ally 5893

I think we'd need at least three levels of handicapping if we were to split. One for the most modern Ovingtons etc., one for the older boats and one for the classic Faireys.
I look after the handicaps for CVRDA (Classic and Vintage Racing Dinghy Association www.cvrda.org and for Albacores we have classic (pre 1965) and old (1965-1985) with classic having the equivalent of 10 PY points advantage on handicap. We also operate some flexibility on bands depending on class so would probably put most Faireys in the classic band even if they were 1966 for example. Our old Fosrite (5198) has been a successful cvrda boat for us and given great racing along with the old Finns and Merlins.
At club level all the other local Albs are in the 79xx numbers and the Fosrite has been mostly up with them since it had a decent set of sails, though that may be down to crew factors as well as boats. We haven't raced the Speed Alb against that fleet enough yet to compare - the one time we were all out, four Albacores goose-winging down the lake all abreast took up the width of the sailing area!.

You top fleet sailors will just have to stop sailing so well in handicap and club racing
Seriously if we could get more novices into Albacore racing, their slower times would improve the handicap for all of us as well as boost the class.





:*RosE*:

If your Club sends in results to the RYA number cruncher, the scheme can offer suggestions as to Club handicaps suitable for your Club. This works if you have reasonable size class fleets also competing in your handicap races. My Club has used this facility for the first time which has resulted in Lasers being even more favoured than their official PY and the Solos being more handicapped than their official number. Sadly, classes with few boats can't be dealt with under the system so we might beat one or two more Solos and lose to even more Lasers.

Ovington where do we comparably classify a Fosrite? It would be interesting to hear comment from more members on this matter.??

This subject obviously still has 'legs' so to speak.

By way of an update on my own situation, our club collates the results for all classes sailed and submits them to the RYA. It also uses the results to determine if there should be a local handicap. If there are enough boats sailing to provide a reasonable judgement, then the local handicap will be altered, but if only one boat is sailing, then it is harder to judge as it is effectively a personal handicap.

I am the only Albacore sailing at my club and the results from last year suggested that on a local basis I should go back by 5 points to 1055. However, at the review meeting, the club decided that with only one boat sailing, they should stick with the RYA recommendation and I went down to 1045. To be fair other boats were affected, for instance a Laser was recommended by the RYA to go up by a few points, but instead he was put down, so I wasn't the only one to 'lose'.

All I can do now is sail as many races as possible to provide the club with more data in the hope that they can make a more favourable judgement at the end of the year. I might not like the number but I'm happy that the club is at least collating and reviewing the data and can make a judgement on the evidence.

If other clubs can do this then we stand more of a chance to agree a handicap for older boats as many other classes and clubs have done.

Graham
Natural Ally 5893

There is considerable food for thought in the current handicap scenario. I agree that loosely we need to give some recommended handicaps for local club use. It is not acceptable that as a class we bury our bows in the sand and do nothing! The problem is that we also need to recognize that there are exceptions that will still need consideration and there are a few exceptionally fast and well-sailed albacores that may stand outside of anything we consider. I would favour a three tier system and think that Maidenhead and West Kirby clubs have the numbers and data worth crunching for analysis. Broadly speaking if we accept the RYA figure then we should consider that the Ovingtons and Speeds are in this bracket along possibly with the Woofs. The next bracket would be Youngs, Kingsfields & Porters and then the final classification would be Fairey, Fosrites & ?. We need to resolve this issue to encourage racing at club level. If we do not deal with this issue we will jeopardise the value of older boats and lose the very boats that are the starter into the class for many interested sailors. Few have the available funds to purchase a new or second-hand Ovi or Speed so we need to consider this very seriously. Attendances at events have reduced over the last 5 years and this reflects competitiveness of boats as well as the cost of attending events. I noted the number of new to old sail numbers at SC three years ago, two years ago and this year. It tells a tale. This year we were down to three boats out of fourteen below sail numbers of 8000.

Club results may not bear this out but I would suggest that the top rating should be 1050, the mid strata should be between 1055 and 1060 and the bottom rating 1065.

Comments please and can we have analysis of Maidenhead and WK results to assist in this.

Albacore Andy
A7525
Blue Jay

AlbacoreAndy wrote:

Comments please and can we have analysis of Maidenhead and WK results to assist in this.

Our Maidenhead results coordinator thinks the Albs should be sailing off 1001 , so perhaps not a good idea to use us as a reference!
Other than the 1st Sunday of the month, the Albs have their own class race or we run pursuits, neither of which would feed into PYS, so I dont think you can blame us for the drop in PY.

To Albacore Andy

I have tried to attach the results for my club, but the file won't work. If you want to PM me I can send them to you directly.

The results show that I should have gone to 1055 this year, but due to lack of other boats I have gone to the RYA handicap of 1045. You may find it interesting to look at the results and recommendations for other classes. My boat is a Knight and Pink, so would agree with you that it should be in the 'second tier' behind the modern boats.

Hope this helps.

Graham
Natural Ally 5893

We've had fairly close racing with Faireys in our Fosrite at cvrda events ( classic and vintage racing dinghy association but from those results I'd say the Faireys should still get an advantage on handicap over the Fosrite.
More boats are needed for a better comparison, so if any pre 1985 Albacores fancy an outing to Roadford (Devon) 18th/19th July or beautiful Clywedog (mid Wales) 13th/14th June we can add to the statistics. On site camping at both events.